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Link to Question Submission Form
Contact us at yondercast@gmail.com
Episode Agenda with Time Stamps:
Credits:
Ep.6: Scooby-Goonies - An Outer Banks Review
Ian: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. And welcome to Yondercast, the show where we do our best to answer your questions. My name is Ian Lake, and this week I'm joined by a man who sits in the saddle atop the stallion of excellence, Patrick Leitch.
Patrick: [00:00:17] Wow.
Ian: [00:00:18] I'm also joined by a man who straddles average Josh Baltzell.
Josh: [00:00:25] I don't know what that means.
Ian: [00:00:30] Oh man, there has been so much happening in the last few weeks. You guys, where do we start? What's been going on with you?
Patrick: [00:00:37] I guess I will start with the idea that we are potty training our two and a half year old this weekend. So it is going to be nonstop, intense, two and a half year old. So, we don't need to go into specifics, but we basically have to have eyes on him the entire time and we're going to be spending a lot of time outside.
Josh: [00:00:58] It's difficult to learn skill or teach skills that you've never learned. So good. Good on you.
Ian: [00:01:04] Oh,
Patrick: [00:01:06] I, I do my best, you know, I do my best.
Ian: [00:01:10] you spend a lot of time outside though.
Patrick: [00:01:12] A nature's restroom or in pools.
Ian: [00:01:16] that sounds like an adventure for sure. Enjoy yourself.
Patrick: [00:01:19] Yeah. You can call it that.
Ian: [00:01:21] You only get to do this once, right? Hopefully. Well, once for each kid,
Patrick: [00:01:26] Yeah, it took me a couple 10 times myself, but that's okay.
Josh: [00:01:30] Can't the older one just teach the younger one? I don't know. I don't have kids. I don't know how this works.
Patrick: [00:01:36] Sort of. It's a lot of just let him see if he can figure it out. And if not suggest a couple of things and eventually let him figure it out. It's kind of a lot like our teaching practice. Try not to do it for them. Let them make some mistakes, cleaning up after them, and then they'll figure it out on their own. And they'll be really happy when they do
Josh: [00:01:58] that's poetic.
Patrick: [00:02:01] a little messier, but yes.
Ian: [00:02:03] that's a very, that's a very good outlook that you have very peaceful
Josh: [00:02:09] I wish that I had something interesting to report. For the past five weeks. I've done nothing but write. I am the most boring person to ask how my time has been spent. I'm like, well, staring at a computer typing, sometimes reading. But then typing what I read.
Ian: [00:02:26] it's been all for school, right?
Josh: [00:02:28] Oh yeah. No, it's, it's interesting and fun. It's yeah, just not a lot of time to do other fun stuff. Oh, however, did you guys see that that video game Grounded was released? Have you even heard of it?
Ian: [00:02:42] Is that the one where everybody is like super tiny? Yeah.
Patrick: [00:02:45] Oh, no.
Josh: [00:02:47] So basically you're, you're one of four kids that gets shrunken down and just dropped in a backyard. And there's all these mysteries that you have to discover and it looked adorable and I downloaded it and started playing it. I've never been more scared from a video game in my entire life.
Ian: [00:03:07] Is it, is it good? Is it worthwhile?
Josh: [00:03:10] it's probably one of the best survival crafting games that I've ever played, but man, they use the fear element so well. They don't use any cinematics. You're just walking around and in full control. And all of a sudden you'll see in the distance, the grass blades are waving back and forth and you don't know what it is, but you hear something hissing.
And so you're like, Oh, time to run.
Patrick: [00:03:34] got cool graphics too.
Ian: [00:03:36] that one looked really interesting. It looked like it could go either way. I was like, this could either be really fun or this could be a total flop, but I did like the way it looked and I liked the premise of it. Maybe I'll have to check it
Patrick: [00:03:48] ratings too.
Josh: [00:03:49] Yeah. I'm impressed so far. And so far they've only released a small storyline. But it's, it's a good storyline and it's just this cute, terrifying game.
Ian: [00:04:01] That's cool. I'll check that one out.
Patrick: [00:04:03] definitely.
Ian: [00:04:04] I had some big video game moments in the last couple of weeks as well. Cause I just finished The Last of Us 2 as of a few days ago. And well, I won't go into it very much because. I know you guys haven't played it
Patrick: [00:04:17] no, I'm maybe an hour into it.
Ian: [00:04:20] Well, for your sakes and for everyone listening, I won't like do any spoilers or anything like that.
And I'm hesitant actually to say any opinions about the game, because that game continues to be incredibly controversial for a whole number of reasons. But, in my opinion, I think it's the best video game I've ever played
Josh: [00:04:40] wow.
Ian: [00:04:42] both kind of subjectively and objectively. I mean, I think the quality of the graphics, the cut scenes, the acting, the animation, writing, the way that the story is told and Just the depth of the plot and the themes of the game and the representation in the game I don't want to include any spoilers, but it's a very, very representative cast.
And all of those are things that I think it does better than any game that I've ever seen. and it's really the gameplay, in my opinion, is super engaging and challenging and interesting and, fun. but it is definitely a mature game. It is not for the faint of heart, even for adults. It is a very, very sad, tragic game.
Josh: [00:05:30] which seems fitting. Cause it's the zombie apocalypse. There cannot be a happy ending in this game.
Ian: [00:05:36] no, no. And well, again, no spoilers. I won't talk about the ending, but I will just say it's a hard game to play in certain ways. And it definitely pushes the boundaries in like every way. So I highly recommend it for people who are old and mature enough to play it and, who are not faint of heart and are ready for something challenging.
because I think it definitely elevates the whole video game concept to a level that I haven't seen.
Patrick: [00:06:08] That's awesome. Yeah, they, I would say in my first hour alone, I've already met some of those challenges and it's like, Oh my gosh, if this is a 30 hour game, that's going to be like pretty brutal and pretty like painstaking and heart wrenching. But at the same time they do that great mix of.
Engagement. Like sometimes if you're playing a game like that, you kind of are like, okay, this is too much. I got to stop, but it's just enough and a great story. And like you were saying, the engaging gameplay, I guess just, it's just so smooth. And it actually feels like you're a part of a movie. And so it's one of those things, you're not feeling like you're playing a video game.
You're actually feeling like you're a part of an interactive. Meaningful story. So that, I mean, they're really good at that. I'm excited. You you've pumped me up even more to get back to it and try and finish it. Cause I really, really want to experience that.
Ian: [00:06:56] we'll wait until you finished it. And then we can maybe, I don't know, maybe try and talk a little bit more about it on the show once more than one of us have finished it. But, that's my takeaway. if this is. Says something about the video game as well, I finished it about a week ago and I feel like I'm still kind of processing it. I'll be laying in bed thinking about it and like trying to figure out how I feel about certain things or, you know, it sticks with you.
Patrick: [00:07:21] That's awesome.
Josh: [00:07:22] I guess I have to get over my fear of zombies.
Patrick: [00:07:25] Well, that's like the Telltale Walking Dead game. I still talk about this one, like at the very end, there's some decisions you have to make. And afterwards I literally was like, setting down my controller and just like with my mouth open awestruck at what had just happened and the decisions I made and the story that had unfolded before me, like I had never felt that way about a video game before. Like I mainly play like MMO RPGs and AA RPGs. So it's like a lot of just like mindless playing. There's not, I mean, you get story and you get lore, but you don't get like, An emotional response sometimes, unless obviously you get like a really nice piece of loot or something, but this one was like so much more meaningful and like had a moral to the story and had, had me reflect in a way that I hadn't ever experienced before.
So I think if you're looking for something to overcome that that telltale game, I don't know if you've played at Josh, but that's a nice little introduction. Cause it is still the zombie, but it has that aspect to it. And I just remember, like, I still am like, I just like sat down the controller and just like thought for probably about an hour.
And so I can only imagine from what I've experienced so far, the last of us two, that I could see it definitely being that way.
I love
Josh: [00:08:37] video games where the world changes based off of your decisions. Cause sometimes I just like to be the biggest jerk in the world. And make every bad decision and watch the world suffer for it and laugh. There's probably a psychologist listening to this going, what is wrong with you? But like, sometimes you want to be able to make those mistakes and just watch what happens and just smile and go.
I did that.
Patrick: [00:09:01] Well, there's a new fable coming out.
Josh: [00:09:03] I can't wait.
Ian: [00:09:05] that was fables whole thing back in the day. Yeah.
Josh: [00:09:07] I just beat vampire and I drained the blood of every single citizen in the city, so,
Ian: [00:09:15] Well, the last of us two is definitely not a game like that. it's very much a curated, finely crafted story it's not, open-world where you get control over which way the story goes. it's very much an interactive piece of fiction can link an interactive novel or an interactive movie. so it doesn't give you that experience, but you do get to be the bad guy. That's what you like.
Josh: [00:09:40] I do. We need more games where you can be a villain. I want to be a villain,
Ian: [00:09:45] I really hope that wasn't too spoiler-y we should probably move on before I say something else that I'm going to regret.
Josh: [00:09:50] or I say something that gets me arrested.
Ian: [00:09:55] Speaking of things that can get you arrested. I feel like we should probably address some of the things that have been happening in real life, not just in video games. You know I live in Portland. You guys live near Portland, which has kind of become the center of attention with regards to political action in the last few weeks. And I'm,
I'm honestly not quite sure what I want to say on the podcast about those issues. But living in Portland and having observed the protests happening in Portland firsthand. I think that this continues to be a time where it just I'd like to reiterate our original message, that it continues to be very, very important to show support for the Black Lives Matter movement. In whatever way is possible.
because it's a movement that continues to have momentum and needs to continue to have momentum and has not achieved what it set out to achieve yet. I don't know. Do you guys have anything else that you want to add to that?
Patrick: [00:11:01] I think your, your perspective from living in Portland is very important. whether it's through the news or through video games, seems like just as an anecdotal sort of thing. I was playing the other day and mentioned I was from Portland and of course I had probably 20 other people giving very interesting opinions on what was happening. In Portland. And I asked them, are you from Portland? And the answer was no. So obviously they have these very heated, very passionate, very, sometimes angry opinions about things that they aren't necessarily going through. And I think a lot of that comes down to where you're getting the information and. I mean, I don't want to speak for all of us, but as a person who likes evidence and empirical things, seeing what, what I'll call proof, I would like firsthand evidence either seeing it myself or talking to someone who's experienced it themselves.
And so it's one of those things that if you don't get that opinion from those people, and you're just taking word from others, it's very hard to get. An accurate depiction of what's happening because those individuals assumed that the entire city of Portland was basically in shambles and rubble. And knowing that my sister lives in Portland and you live in Portland and I have friends that live in Portland.
Who are going about their days normally, right? They're not in any fear, any harm's way or anything else when some places make it seem like that's happening. And so I think where I'm going with this, just talk to people who've been there, right? If there's someone that are saying that these people are bad, talk to them, see what they're experiencing and get, I mean, their opinion first and get the opinion of a lot of people, because I think with you being there and in the city, You have firsthand experience of probably what's going on.
And I think that's important to share and for people to hear, even if you don't necessarily have the capacity to.
Ian: [00:13:05] Yeah, I think that one of the issues that has come up a lot with regards to. Particularly the portrayal of protests nationwide, but, you know, since Portland has really been kind of like the one that has the place that has been highlighted for the last several weeks, it is really interesting to see what people are seeing and see what people are listening to.
And I think everyone should step back for a second and just think about who they're listening to and what kinds of things they are internalizing. Because, like you said, a lot of the perspectives that are out there are from people who don't have any firsthand experience with what's going on in Portland.
And it seems like they're, they're kind of. Creating these narratives that are fictional, that aren't based in reality of what's going on. And it just seems like, it just seems surprising that everyone wouldn't in order to figure out what's going on in Portland, wouldn't try to find sources from Portland to listen to why they're so much more comfortable listening to these perspectives and these narratives constructed by people who have not been to Portland since any of this stuff has been happening and aren't seeing it firsthand. that kind of goes back to a whole, you know, theme of the Black Lives Matter movement, which is there's a lot of contradictory perspectives going on with regards to what the, the demands are from the Black Lives Matter movement and what the goals are and that kind of thing.
And it just seems surprising that there's still a lot of people who are not listening to Black people with regards to the Black Lives Matter movement, that they are much more comfortable listening to the perspectives and the narratives constructed by others and trying to determine what the needs of the black community are without actually really consulting or even listening to the perspective of black people in the black community,
Josh: [00:15:11] it's kind of crazy to think that people might know what's best for them more than what other people think are best for them.
Ian: [00:15:17] right. It's just crazy to me that, there's this whole community of people who are saying, this is what has been happening to us for centuries, and this is what we need. And there's this whole other community of people who are saying, well, you have to be wrong. There's no way that you have actually had the experience that you've had or that you actually have the needs that you have. It's just crazy. Like, I don't know. I would never, I would never claim to be an expert in something that I'm not an expert in. Right.
Josh: [00:15:49] absolutely.
Patrick: [00:15:50] right.
Ian: [00:15:51] And that seems to be what is happening with regards to the Black Lives Matter movement? It seems like that's, what's happening with regards to the protest in Portland. People are claiming to be experts and know what's going on with stuff that they have no idea what's going on with.
Patrick: [00:16:02] I think that's, I mean, we've had discussions using this, but the Dunning Kruger effect, like I think we've talked about that a couple of times people get a little information on it and they experience a few things and all of a sudden. They've seen the news and they've read a couple articles and they're experts on the entire movement.
And they're experts on all of these things rather than listening to the vast majority of voices that they need to be listening to. And then once they're set in those ways, there, they think they're the expert. Therefore they know everything. Therefore, every other person's opinion is not valid. And that's a very scary thing if you're not in that person's alignment and that person's like in a position of power or something else.
Josh: [00:16:43] Well, it's really unfortunate. The way that our brains work is we formulate opinions almost instantly because we have more networks going outwards than we do inwards. And this is kind of going back to our simulation talks, but we make up our minds based off a very small amount of evidence. And one of the reasons why I like science so much is that it's, it's exactly like you said, Patrick, you need empirical evidence.
You need to ask questions. Don't just take your immediate opinion as fact, and start questioning things that you see and really take the time to beat down your own opinion before presenting it to other people.
Patrick: [00:17:26] exactly.
Ian: [00:17:27] Yeah, I think that, If I could, if I could ask our listeners to do something, with regards to this, it would be to
really look one level deeper into the things that you're listening to and try and make sure that they are based in fact, and listen to a diverse set of perspectives. I don't know, I don't think anybody should be silencing any voices in what they're listening to, because even if, even if some of the voices are maybe oppositional to what they believe or what they feel or what they even know to be true, it's helpful to know what other people are hearing and believing.
So diversify. What you are consuming. And particularly if you haven't yet make sure that you seek out black voices to listen to, if you want to know what's going on in Portland, seek out black voices from Portland to listen to you and hear what they have to say. especially with regards to the Black Lives Matter movement and what's happening to the Black community because they have to be part of what you're listening to, if you're paying attention at all.
Patrick: [00:18:39] agreed.
Ian: [00:18:40] Well, you guys, I think that with that very serious conversation aside, I think it might be time for us to move on to our listener question for the day.
Patrick: [00:18:51] That's
Ian: [00:18:52] I am very excited for this question because. this isn't, this is a different one. You know, last week we expended probably about 114% of our brain power to discuss the possibility of life being a simulation and confronting the debate on free will and all of that kind of stuff. And this week, I think we're going to use about 17% of our mental capacity to talk about something we've received a lot of questions from our listeners about, and it should be noted that many of our listeners our, our high school students. And so it makes sense that we've gotten a lot of questions about Netflix's hit adventure teen drama, The Outer Banks.
Patrick: [00:19:41] just to give perspective to this a little bit, I actually gave out a student survey. That asked my students, Hey, since we're in quarantine, since we're kind of on our own something that you've been watching, you've been listening to, you've been doing that's exciting and fun, and it's just a good recommendation for me to watch 75 percent of all of my responses.
And I can't even, like, I don't recall the exact number numbers since we had a 150 that we had put it out there too. I obviously didn't get all of them back, maybe somewhere on the lines of like 40 or 50, but 75% of all of those included Outer Banks,
Josh: [00:20:21] And I am disappointed in each and every one of you.
Ian: [00:20:26] Hey, we haven't gotten into the review section yet.
Patrick: [00:20:30] disappointed that they did not tell us sooner.
Ian: [00:20:33] I think he's disappointed in the 25% who didn't say anything about The Outer
Josh: [00:20:37] Banks.
Yeah. Yeah, that's it.
Ian: [00:20:39] Yeah. So I think that we, I think we need to have some conversation with no spoilers and kind of like give our review and our impression of the show for anyone who hasn't seen it and might want to watch it before or well, either before coming back and listening to this, or after listening to our show, And then I think that we, we'll, we'll warn everyone when we're getting into spoiler territory and we'll continue discussion with spoilers.
So for the next, probably couple minutes, we won't have any spoilers. I was thinking first, I want to know what everyone's rating of the show is. So before you say anything out loud, I want, I want all three of us to write down what our rating is between zero and 10. For this show, you guys ready?
Patrick: [00:21:27] I am ready.
Ian: [00:21:28] Who wants to go first?
Josh: [00:21:30] I should not go first.
Ian: [00:21:33] Okay. What'd you got Patrick.
Patrick: [00:21:35] Okay. I'm going to give it a 7.9.
Ian: [00:21:37] 7.9.
I wrote down an eight out of 10.
Josh: [00:21:44] I gave it a four
Ian: [00:21:50] All right. So, with a little quick calculator math, that means that between our four, our three. Wow. I'm great. At math, between our three reviews,
Patrick: [00:21:59] That's what the calculator is for.
Josh: [00:22:02] bad at math. That's why you liked the show.
Ian: [00:22:05] Aye-oh. We gave it an average rating of 6.6. That's what our three reviews come down to.
Patrick: [00:22:13] And I'm okay with that.
Ian: [00:22:15] yeah, so I think that we, I think we need to dive into that, but I feel like it's going to be hard for us to dive into that without spoilers. So generally, what were some general things that you guys liked about the show?
Josh: [00:22:29] I thought it was a decent mystery, like the storyline itself. I felt like I was interested to find out the story. I wanted to learn more about what was going on in the past. I wanted to find out, I wanted to find out what happened to John B's dad. I wanted to figure out all of these things.
Patrick: [00:22:52] I thought the production value was pretty good. I know that there's some shows that you watch in your, like, Okay special effects here, not so great. That's not realistic. I could just see this happening.
I felt like that it is plausible that something like this could happen. Like this is just a story that someone told that of a friend they knew. so that production value is pretty good, but at the same time, there were just a lot of what I would say, cliche or stereotypical things that I would expect
I would expect from what I will consider a pop culture, teen drama.
Josh: [00:23:33] Sorry, I'll stop making faces.
Patrick: [00:23:36] I wrote just it's hard. Your faces are so good. They're like what I would expect after what I said. And that's why they're perfect.
Ian: [00:23:44] Yeah, I, I agree with you guys. I will say that if I could go a little bit deeper with the rating and I could give episodes ratings, I think that I would rate the first half of this show. At about five and then the latter half of the show brought it up higher for me. because I really felt like I didn't enjoy the first few episodes of this show and we can get into why that is but I thought, like you said, Patrick, that there was just a lot of cliche stuff happening, lots of tropes. And, and I really didn't care for the characters for like the first several episodes, but then right about when we got to the halfway point, I started to feel like. I liked the characters a little bit more, and enjoyed the chemistry between them and I, like you said, Josh, I liked how the plot was kind of going and, and it got a little exciting and I felt like they kept up that momentum a little bit.
So that's why I thought it deserved a, a solid B rating.
what were some of the things that you did not like about the show? And I want to start with Josh.
Josh: [00:24:49] Oh, I for me. It was mostly. like I felt like there was a lack of character development. I didn't feel attached to any of the characters through most of the show. I will admit that it took me about three episodes to realize that JJ and John B were two different people. like I was so confused cause their names were similar, they look similar and. Yeah, for me, it was mostly character development that bothered me so much. and I felt like personalities were introduced that weren't carried through in later episodes. Like we were told certain things about characters and then all of a sudden it was just gone or like it had no meaning on the plot or it had no benefit later in the story.
Ian: [00:25:39] well, I don't disagree with a lot of the things that they, you just said. And I look forward to discussing those in more detail. Patrick, do you have anything else to add things that you didn't enjoy?
Patrick: [00:25:50] really, the only thing to me that stuck out a lot of the time was that some of the, interactions or some of the things that happened, or some of the plot devices, I guess if you will seemed forced, it seemed like they were put in there too. Achieve something and it wasn't subtle. And to me, that kind of like irks me when I'm watching shows is like, Oh, they only said that, or they only did, did that to try and achieve something later or set something up when it's way too obvious.
Or they were trying to please a certain crowd rather than let the, like Josh was hinting at, the character development take care of that itself. So it just seemed like a lot of it was forced in a lot of it was, I kind of, I don't want to keep using the word cliche or anything else, but it was very, very overly structured in terms of the types of characters and the storyline, in my opinion.
Ian: [00:26:40] All right. Well, I don't think I can wait any longer. I think that we need to get into, I think that we need to free ourselves up to talk about specifics and spoilers. So attention everyone, audience, we are moving into spoiler territory. If you haven't seen the show and you care about not having things spoiled for you, please skip to the end of the episode, or maybe pause it and come back after you've had a chance to watch the show. but of course, if you've seen the show or if you don't care about spoilers, please keep listening. Cause this is going to be where it starts to get a lot more fun and a lot more animated between the three of us.
I think we should start with the characters and the character development. Because I agree that there was some problems there. And part of the reason why I really didn't like the first few episodes, was because I felt like the characters were totally not believable and totally not realistic considering they are supposed to be high school kids.
Josh: [00:27:41] I don't know what you're talking about. I remember graduating high school at the age of 35. And
Ian: [00:27:47] And it was more than just the fact that like the actors are clearly in their mid twenties, mid to late twenties, it was the way that things were written and what those kids were doing. And this is a problem, I think in a lot of shows that portray high school, where they portray these high school kids doing things that at least the majority of high school kids are not doing on a routine basis. Just the huge unsupervised parties on the beach with tons of underage drinking and the drugs and the sex was just a little bit over the top. It feels like this type of show, and this one is, is a culprit of this just portraying these very adult behaviors in what are supposed to be very young characters.
Josh: [00:28:32] well, even to take that further, there's a common fallacy that a lot of TV shows and movies make when they're about high school age students. I feel like sometimes they try to make the decisions and the thinking of the high school students stupid. Like they purposefully make them how adults perceive high school decisions, which, I mean, the three of us are lucky and that we get to work with high schoolers all the time.
High schoolers aren't stupid. And they don't make dumb choices. They make the same amount of dumb choices that adults make. And so it frustrates me when I watch a TV show and I would rename this show a series of unfortunate decisions. and I just get frustrated because I feel like a lot of adults that make movies and TV shows have this perception of how high schoolers think and behave. And it's like, yes, those are things that high schoolers face, drugs, sex, alcohol, all of it, they do face it that's realistic, but they overinflate the poor decisions that are sometimes made so that they turn into these life altering decisions that destroy the person or they get someone killed and I get that that's drama. And so it makes sense to increase that tension in the storyline. But at the same time I'm sitting there going not one student that I can think of that I know would make a decision in this situation that is that poor.
Patrick: [00:30:04] Yeah. I think if I have to go into the episode being like, okay, this is a teen drama, these are probably the things I'm expecting out of this. That's already a problem with how I'm viewing it. the fact that I have to physically tell my brain that this is a show and this is not real, and this is not how our students would actually act or how we acted in high school or whatever the situation is, is a problem in itself.
Like that's almost a strike against me from voting it higher because I'm already putting myself in a mindset that I shouldn't have to.
Ian: [00:30:36] And just the way that it's all portrayed. I mean, Josh, you're absolutely right that these things like alcohol and drugs and rock and roll, you know, these are all things that, are a part of teenage experience for many people, and it's something that teenagers do navigate.
It's just the portrayal of it in this show and like every other show and movie ever. It kind of glorifies it in a way. And it, seems to make it like universal, like something that every single person is experiencing and it makes these things feel very routine and like it's just an everyday part of everybody's life. it also was just a knock against it for me, cause I'm like, okay, I turned this show on and it's literally something I've seen probably 30 times before in my life. this portrayal of teenagers is nothing different than any other show ever so what makes this interesting? And I don't think the show gets interesting for a few episodes.
Josh: [00:31:31] well, I don't really want to speak for high school aged kids right now, but I kind of get the feeling that watching a show like this is very similar to like what I was saying, where sometimes I like playing the villain and a video game. And draining the blood of all the citizens of London. I like, I like having that out of body experience like, wow, this is character is making all the wrong decisions.
And I think that that might be where like high school age students are coming from. Where they watch a show like this and I bet that they're probably enjoying the show, watching it, just thinking to themselves, man, these people are making bad decisions and like they're aware of it. It's just, I don't know.
Sometimes I feel like it's insulting when TV shows say here's this high school kid watch watch as he blows up a boat because he doesn't like these people. Or sinks a boat because he doesn't like these people. And I'm just like, no one, not even the worst decision makers that I know would say, I don't like that guy I'm going to sink his boat. That's a sociopath.
Ian: [00:32:40] You're absolutely right. I think you've kind of hit the nail on the head is that it kind of feels as people who teach high schoolers, it kind of feels like this show and other shows like it are in a way almost insulting to high school people and their ability to make smart choices or see things with clarity or with nuance. You know, how it kind of portrays them as just being these super hormone pumped individuals who are just totally impulsive in every decision that they ever make.
Josh: [00:33:10] I have to point out one thing that's been driving me insane. And it's from the first episode when they're introducing the characters and I feel bad because it's that whole concept of our perceptions form our opinions throughout the future. I made an opinion at the very beginning of this show that I could not drop until the end
The girl, Kai. In the very beginning when they're introducing her, they're like, she's an environmentalist and it cuts to a scene of her saying dolphins are, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Through the rest of the year, not once. Do they ever bring up that she's an environmentalist and it goes so far as to by like the very next episode, she throws a net into the water and blows up an ecosystem. For selfish gain. And I'm just kind of like, why would you even bother telling us that she's an environmentalist? It sounds like she's a party environmentalist where at a party, she'll talk about dolphins and whales, but then she goes to destroys an area of the ocean for no reason.
Ian: [00:34:17] there was some really, really sloppy character development in this show. I remember a similar scene. It was in like episode two or three or something where I think they probably realized like, Oh, we haven't given these people personalities yet. And so they actually sat all of the characters down around a bonfire and tried to like Assign them personalities.
Like they literally went around and they're like, what will you do with the money? And Kai was like, I'm going to record a double album. And I was literally like, wait, she's a musician? Where did that come from? I think played one bad ukulele chord at one point. And like, there was a scene where she was randomly like slapping some bongos and that's like, that's it. And then it never comes up again.
Patrick: [00:35:06] I think it's going to be actually playing the ukulele and then making dolphin sounds about environmentalism. That's going to be
Josh: [00:35:12] I would buy that if they had done that, I would have loved that. I would have been like, okay, I can, I can jam with this.
Ian: [00:35:20] There was some stuff with Pope's character, too. They just like randomly dropped the term forensic pathology into his dialogue every once in a while. And it was like, what? Wait, what?
Josh: [00:35:31] you keep using that word. Like you think, you know what it means? I don't think, you know what it means.
Ian: [00:35:35] We know that he doesn't know how it means because there's, I also want to discuss this with you guys. There's some science quote, unquote science in this show that made me laugh out loud. When it happened and I had to replay the scenes like four or five times just to make sure I was hearing it correctly.
Do you guys remember any of that?
Patrick: [00:35:53] Is it the, what is about the independent and dependent or whatever it was the, Oh, what it was it, there was one comment about the manipulated in response variables.
Ian: [00:36:02] I wrote it down. I took notes through taking the show and that was one that I wrote down word for word. This is a line from Pope and he says, I can't remember who he speaking to. But someone's like going off about something and he says "there are independent and dependent variables. You're an independent variable. We don't know what you're going to do."
Josh: [00:36:20] That was what I texted you guys. Cause we were, we, we agreed that we wouldn't talk about the show until right now. I couldn't help it. I had to stop the show and text you both and say, what does that mean?
Ian: [00:36:34] I mean, so wrong on every level of, first of all, the independent variable is the one that, you know what it's gonna do
Patrick: [00:36:43] But does the actual independent variable know what it's going to do? Or does the scientist know?
Ian: [00:36:49] And also if you're talking about a scientific experiment, even if they had put the right word in there, which is dependent variable, you should still have some sort of a prediction about what the dependent variable's going to do that would have made some sense, but that was totally botched. There was also the thing about you.
Remember when John B got electrocuted. Not just by a device, but he got electrocuted by a power main.
Josh: [00:37:15] Wait, wasn't it an electric fence?
Ian: [00:37:17] main line had fallen down uh, across a fence. And so the fence was charged and he got fully shocked by an actual electrical wire and the. Excuse that they used for him not having any injuries was that he had a compass on him that concentrated the shock.
Josh: [00:37:35] Wait, does that not work?
Ian: [00:37:37] well, I'm not an electrician or anything, but that doesn't make sense to me that doesn't quite.
Patrick: [00:37:43] Well, now it's all stored in the compass.
Josh: [00:37:46] It's all in the compass
Ian: [00:37:49] he's like the green lantern now. He can just like, hold it up and shoot rays of electricity out of it.
Josh: [00:37:56] I would start enjoying it.
Ian: [00:38:00] There was something else. Oh, there was the moment when John B, got pushed out of the lighthouse and fell at least 40 feet onto his back. And somehow he only had a concussion and a broken wrist. And I think they said something about the sand
Patrick: [00:38:19] Yeah, I think because he was falling and he was falling flat, he increased his surface area and the drag a little bit. So he just felt slower. It's like, if you watch like a cat or a squirrel falling out of a tree, they really spread out. And then they compact at the very end just before they land, he just forgot to do that part or maybe he did.
And that's how he broke his wrist. But that's my assumption is that he was wearing baggy clothes and I mean, he's got some like floppy hair that maybe slowed him down a little bit too, but
Ian: [00:38:50] His long hair, increased his drag and saved his life.
Patrick: [00:38:54] a lot of wind resistance.
Ian: [00:38:55] They did get one thing right, though, in the show, which was when I don't remember who said it, but there was a lesson, a little lesson on commensalism mutualism and parasitism.
Josh: [00:39:06] Oh, I don't remember that.
Ian: [00:39:07] I think it might've been Pope, I think who talked about those three terms and they actually described them correctly.
They got that right. And so I, they redeemed themselves in, in, in a way for me, with regards to science.
Josh: [00:39:21] It's kind of nice that, they did give Pope like a high school level understanding of scientific terms though, excluding the part where he got the half of them wrong, but he's at least using the terms. Just waiting for him to walk out and be like mitochondria.
Ian: [00:39:37] Yeah, I know I did get a little bit tired of him continually mentioning his merit scholarship over and over again. That was a little bit, tropey almost as tropey as JJ's gun. It seemed like
Josh: [00:39:50] that was weird.
Ian: [00:39:52] in like, in like every episode for the first half of the show, there was a scene where JJ had a gun and someone was like, dude, you can't have that here. And that was basically the whole scene. weird.
Josh: [00:40:04] and their intervention. With him about all of his bad choices that led to absolutely nothing.
Like they confronted him saying, dude, by our standards, you're making a lot of bad decisions and he was like, shut up and then whatever, just okay. Yes, you can keep making bad decisions.
Ian: [00:40:24] Okay. so we've talked a little bit about individual characters and how we feel about them. How did you guys feel about the character interactions and the relationships that developed throughout the show?
Josh: [00:40:35] I don't dislike them because I do think that they're representative of a lot of the relationships that high schoolers experience. Because, I mean, that is the age where you start dating seriously. And you start being asked questions about people regarding sex and romance. And who do you like? Things like that?
I would love it if just once a TV show about high schoolers showed some healthier relationships with friends and dating partners. So I wouldn't say that I think that these were bad relationships. I just would have liked to see some healthier relationships where friends are calling each other out a little bit more often.
You don't let friends get away with certain things just because they're your friends, but you also don't just shut people down because they're your friends. I don't know.
Patrick: [00:41:33] there is, I think, one interaction with. I think it was Pope and his dad where he was like defending his friends and he was going out with them and he was like, you need to stay, you need to do this. Or I forget what the actual interaction was, but I've like, I struggled back and forth. Like, is this something I would do?
Like, is this something like a student or me when I was younger would come to the aid of my friends, knowing that I could get into trouble or something else could happen and defy my father. Who is like, worked really hard to get a restaurant. And I'm, I know I'm working. Would I see past those consequences and help friends?
Cause I know that they're important and we're a family or a team or whatever it is. Or would I stick at home and say like, no guys, you know what? This, this is too much. I think he struggles with that a lot within the show itself. But I thought that was one of those things where they did a pretty good job on getting me to actually think about that. Right? Like. They did a good job about connecting the friends, whether or not we agreed with how they got those friends to connect or not, but they did do a pretty good job about showing how they do for the most part, have each other's back and are willing to tell each other to stop.
It had almost that, moral dilemma that feel good moment, or that struggle that made the connection between the characters, whether it's them and their parents, or them in each other. Like I thought there was a lot between John being his dad that you just didn't see. And there is that moment, at the very end PR pretty heavily spoiler-y where the dads on the beach and dying and he looks up and he sees through the, like the wood and sees the birds and he always calls John B. Bird. I thought that was like, Like a pretty powerful moment of showing the connection between him and his character and that nickname for never really having those two actually together in the same scene. So I think in those respects that there is some pretty good connection between characters and connection between friends and family.
but then there's like on the other side, Rafe, I thought was, awful sometimes with him and his family but at the end, his character, for character development and for acting purposes, he was really good, really powerful in his struggle. Oh, he like, at the beginning, I hated the way he acted. I didn't know if it was just going to be that sort of like cliche, kitschy, older brother who makes all the bad decisions stuff, but his ability to act like that made me pretty uncomfortable when I was watching it and I think that's the point.
So I thought he did a really good job. Sometimes near the end, when he was really struggling with, am I going to go with my family? Am I going with this drug dealer? I'm struggling myself with an issue. That's really tough that mental, emotional dilemma that I thought was like, Whoa. That one was kind of what sold some of the character development for me that was pretty good. His acting
Ian: [00:44:26] Yeah, I think, I think for me it was the relationships that developed in the show that kind of, kind of saved the show for me because as we talked about, I felt like individually, a lot of the character development was just kind of sloppy and kind of shallow and a little bit cliched, but then, again, kind of in the latter half or maybe the latter, you know, two thirds of the show, we start to see parents, we start to see family relationships. We start to understand why JJ is the way he is. We start to see a little bit more that's giving John B his motivation. we of course see a lot more of, Sarah's dad, you know, he's a very key player in the plot. And once we start seeing those familiar relationships in the way that those have influenced the characters and the way that they are kind of changing and evolving and driving the plot, I think that's kind of what made me sort of care about the characters was the connections that they had, Both, both kind of antagonistic connections between people who don't agree or don't like each other, or are opposing one another as well as the connections between friends and the romantic connections and that sort of thing. I did think that those were well-written and kind of well paced and were interesting for me.
Patrick: [00:45:49] It definitely feels like once they got more family stuff, it helped with the plot line I mean, even me with being a parent now, my kids are really young, but even it makes me think like, okay, well, what are we doing? And how am I setting up things? And how am I talking about things that could potentially affect how they interact with others later, right? How is our family situation going to impact their decisions in the future?
It seems like some of the kids were acting in a way because of what they had gone through their entire lives. And they're making decisions either with their family or against their family based on their friend group. And so I think to me, it was just slightly different in terms of also seeing a viewpoint from the parents, once they actually got in there, even though I don't feel like a lot of those scenarios entirely realistic, but still
Ian: [00:46:40] you mean The John wick fight scene between JJ and his dad, where they like flew through windows together. And
Patrick: [00:46:47] Yeah. Yeah, there is. There's definitely some parts. I was like, okay. That's not exactly realistic in terms of choreography about things happen, but.
Ian: [00:46:55] I will say though JJ's relationship with his dad was one of the things That I thought was a really powerful thing that they did in the show because they really made JJ very unlikable at the beginning of the show, but then they really, first of all, they portrayed him being loyal and, and all of these other positive things as well towards the end of the show.
And they really explain why he is the way that he is and why he has the outlook that he has based on his relationship with his father. and I thought that they did that well and not well, I mean, there was the scene, it was a really hard scene to watch actually it was the most shocking scene in the whole series for me where, JJ and his dad get in the car.
And then JJ's dad. Punches him in the face and his like blood splatters on the window, that was really shocking and a horrific depiction of abuse and very quickly tells the audience why JJ is the way that he is. There was a lot of character development that happened very quickly that way.
And then of course they had a fight scene later on that was a little bit more cartoony and unbelievable where they literally were throwing each other through windows and all this Hollywood stuff.
Patrick: [00:48:05] that moment too, where he's standing over his dad, his dad obviously had taken some medication and was drinking and was passed out and he's angry and he's frustrated and there was just silence and tention. And I thought that was the first time in the show. I had literally felt stressed. Like really, really stressed.
And I was wrestling in my mind as he's walking over there, and maybe it's just because I was experiencing it in the moment, but I could not for the life of me predict what JJ was going to do. I didn't know if he was going to, cause I think, I can't remember if he had the gun in his hand or not. but it seemed like he was going to actually shoot his father and I felt like that part of the show is what really bumped it up for me being a true drama or a true show that's not just entertaining, but getting you to wrestle with something inside of your own head.
Josh: [00:48:56] I wish that there had been more moments like that because you guys, and I have had conversations outside of the podcast about this, but I am a really big fan of psychological tension. I think that it's something that all humans can relate to. When we watch a show, sometimes directors and writers, they have this habit of telling us how the character feels rather than showing us how the character feels. We can interpret what someone's going through. If we've built up to the situation. And that was Patrick, I think that you summed it up really perfectly. That was a situation where for once I was watching a character and I knew exactly what was going on in their mind and I think that they did that scene really well, because it actually did retroactively make the gun make more sense from JJ's perspective, the reason why he kept pulling it out, the reason why he relied on it so heavily and why he like, basically became attached to it was because it almost became the problem solver for him.
And it was exactly, it was representative of something to him. I, I feel like they probably could have led into that a little bit better so that we could see, like, why is he attached to this gun so much? Instead it came across as a guy that has impulse issues that for the first time ever, he gets to hold a gun and now it's gone to his head.
Whereas I can tell from that scene retroactively, Oh, they intended it to mean this to him. So that's more, my request is that this show did have some really amazing gems in it. Like you were saying, they could have really amped everything up by giving that same kind of scene to every character, or at least the ones that matter.
Cause I did find myself despising characters and then all of a sudden being like, "Okay, what you're going through suddenly makes more sense to me." And I don't want them to directly tell me that, but I do want them to set it up so that when we see something, it finally makes sense, not, "Oh, we hate each other because she threw a party without me and I called the cops on her."
Ian: [00:51:19] Yeah. Yeah.
Patrick: [00:51:21] Now we're best friends,
Josh: [00:51:23] Now we like each other, cause it was a misunderstanding.
Patrick: [00:51:27] just one night on the boat.
Ian: [00:51:28] That's a perfect thing example you just gave Josh of what I was going to say, which is that I feel like this show it's kind of all over the place. there are moments where it really hits the Mark and we've talked about some of those moments in terms of being well written and well acted and communicating with the audience in a really effective well done way. And then there are moments where it just totally falls flat and where it's just some of the like cheesiest writing and it feels like the beating you over the head with a club kind of thing.
Josh: [00:52:00] And not only that, you just totally sparked something in my head. They've dehumanized everyone in existence to the point of, they have to shock you with the scenario. It wasn't that the girl threw a party without her and then she, she called the cops on them. That whole thing. LIke, that is so, so extreme and beyond anything that's realistic.
Sometimes as humans the smallest thing can set us off off. Like it could be just that they drifted apart. That is a real thing that can have tension in someone's life. She went with her crowd. I was left with my crowd. Humans experience that, and it does build tension if you build it correctly. But like you were building up to, I think sometimes to solve the problem of, we need tension here. They would give you this shocking scenario that was so over the top so that the tension is more surrounding the event or a singular event rather than an actual human experience and interaction.
Sorry.
Ian: [00:53:08] Yeah. No. So, speaking of events, let's talk about the plot a little bit because we haven't, we haven't talked about that a lot.
What did you guys feel about the plot throughout the show?
Patrick: [00:53:22] I struggled with it. just because to me I kinda, eye roll every once in a while. Every time the whole forbidden love thing comes in. anytime there's two people from different societal groups or family's like, it's the Romeo and Juliet trope. this one just bothers me. I literally, from day one, I'm like, Oh, please just don't be a Romeo and Juliet story, right? There's a guy from a lower class, broken life, girl, upper class. They meet each other. They're not supposed to be together. they're separated by all of these things. There's this war going on between the families or the friends. they make this pact that they're always going to be together or they're willing to sacrifice everything, including their lives to stay together. Trust me, I've thought about this whole lot. And it's just like, it just gets old, like some scenes did it. Well, and I made like a little list, right? Like Titanic, where they had the elite versus the working class. They finally got together and there's this they're willing to die with each other at the very end.
And that was powerful. It was meaningful. I remember crying in the theater sort of thing. Right? Then there's like the hunger games, which I would say is more loosely based off of it. Right. Like Katniss and Peeta, it's more for like, I would say the love triangle, idea, but in there they're still can't be together even though they want to be together.
And that is there's that mental struggle.
Josh: [00:54:41] okay, so you brought up Hunger Games. I'm just going to throw out the whole relationship between Katniss, Peeta and what's his name? Gretta? Know The guy, Gail. Thank you. So whether you're watching the movies or reading the books, Katniss is not focused on relationship building. She is a realistic character because she does not give a crap about these boys.
And like, even in the portrayal of the movies through a lot of it, she's like. I I'm focused on food and survival and I'm being thrust into this situation. And I think that that's more realistic where it's like, People can have more than one feeling at any given time. Whereas these relationships like Sarah saying "I would die for you."
It's like, I'm sorry. I've had conversations with students about Romeo and Juliet and they agreed they'll like throw out there like, no, that makes no sense to me. Like I have never met a person where I'm like, " my love for you is so great that I will die for it."
Patrick: [00:55:50] You're not going to go together and eat those berries to end the hunger games and die together.
Josh: [00:55:55] But like, even that scene, that was... sorry, I'm getting super passionate right now. That scene was not for each other. That scene was that let's stick it to the man. And so I loved that. I think that the Hunger Games is a great story. Sorry, tangent.
Patrick: [00:56:10] I read all three books and like four sittings.
Josh: [00:56:12] Oh, wow.
Patrick: [00:56:14] Oh, The Notebook the The Notebook's kind of a forbidden love. Thanks. Sorry if you're gone and still on hunger games.
Ian: [00:56:21] they, they recreated the notebook in this series. you guys don't remember? When John and Sarah come back from their little field trip
Patrick: [00:56:31] Oh,
Ian: [00:56:34] and they're soaking wet and they're looking at each other and she says, "shut up."
Josh: [00:56:42] I hate you so much right now because you're right.
Patrick: [00:56:46] I did not even think about that.
Ian: [00:56:48] I did a little bit of trivia research, which maybe we'll have time to get some trivia I don't know. But they did that kind of on purpose. They were about to film that scene and it was raining really hard. And so they're like, well, I guess we're going to have to delay this scene and the actors and the writers kind of had a little powwow and they were like, no, let's do it.
Let's do the scene in the rain. We're just going to channel the notebook. It was a very conscious decision, but I think that the "shut up" line was really...
I actually liked the romance between John B and Sarah. I thought, I thought it was fine. I don't know, it didn't bother me, but some of the dialogue that Sarah had, like the "shut-up" scene or the scene where she says "I'd rather die than be without you." Or the scene when they're talking about like how to reconnect or something, and she says, "follow the North star", like just some of the most juvenile writing.
Patrick: [00:57:43] Our deli has less cheese than that.
Josh: [00:57:46] Yeah. Actually, when you put it that way, I think that that, that gives me a different perspective on their relationship. It's more that Sarah's dialogue is awful. Cause I tried very hard to not dislike Sarah because I know that Sarah is representative for some people and people would connect with Sarah in some way.
But I do feel like they gave her an unfair game with her dialogue in a lot of scenarios.
Patrick: [00:58:13] they had pretty good chemistry though. I thought. Like I thought when they were actually interacting it didn't seem awkward and sure. That could have been the acting anything else, but at least it seemed like believable that they actually had a pretty okay relationship, even though the parts where. Like kind of goes into the cheesiness where like, "Oh, but you're a part of this crowd and I'm a part of this crowd. This could never work." Like some of that stuff is like, Oh God, just get over it. Like that sort of thing. But I thought they did pretty well together.
Ian: [00:58:37] I thought so too. I think they just had kind of a natural chemistry. Which they do, don't they?
Patrick: [00:58:43] Yes. So that was one thing I definitely was going to bring up is that my wife told me that John B and Sarah are actually dating in real life. That they're actually together. They've been quarantined together and maybe more,
Josh: [00:58:56] miracles happen
Patrick: [00:58:58] I had a question though. So obviously it's slated for a season two. If you were the director, would you want your two leading actors, your stars, the driving point of your next season, to be in what I'm going to consider a romantic relationship, right? It's happened millions of Whoa. Okay. That's a little hyperbole. It's happened a lot of times. Well, maybe millions of times where two actors get together, right? Like Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson, Ryan Reynolds, Blake Lively, Ashton Kutcher, Mila Kunis. like Freddie Prinze Jr. and Sarah Michelle Gellar. More recently in like orange is the new black Samira Wiley and Lauren Morelli. there's like lots of these examples then of course there's like Brangelina, which hasn't worked out right? There was a lot of conflict in their relationship. And maybe for the younger crowds, Kelly, I can never say her last name. Cuomo. Cool. Cuoco Cuomo. Uh, and Johnny Galecki from the Big Bang Theory. Apparently they were together for a while and then ended up breaking up.
So what do you guys think? Like, do you want your two top leading actors who, I mean, as far as we can tell, have some chemistry, to have real life chemistry, do you want them to be together?
Ian: [01:00:09] Well, Patrick, I'm a sucker for love. So, you know, I'm, I'm not wanting to stand in the way of, of two people. I'm falling in love and, and who am I to say that they can't do it? but I definitely think that I would have some worries and I might I don't know, not try to insert myself into their relationship, but like but try and I don't know, maybe do what I could to, support them or offer guidance to them, to make sure that they are able to navigate the relationship successfully because the success of the show in some ways does depend on the success of that relationship.
Patrick: [01:00:48] At least the plot, right? Like if they have a falling out, do you change the story? Do you like write somebody off the show?
Ian: [01:00:55] it's yeah, it would be, it would be pretty lame if season two started out with a little flashback explanation of how they were out on the boat and they just got into a big argument and now they're not together anymore. That would just be kind of writing off a big plot development in the first season, you know, like that would be lame
Josh: [01:01:13] Oh, see, I would want them to break up in real life so that we could create this, like, Tension between the two of them and then have them like break up halfway through the show. And then I would want John B to be like the jerk in the situation and like have all of his friends turn their back on him. And like Sarah becomes the new John B and she like, kind of tries to take over the progs. Prox? Probes?
Ian: [01:01:43] Pogues.
Josh: [01:01:44] Pogues. Thank you.
My memory for detail is horrible, but like, I would want to see like a complete shakeup of everything. I see. I think it would be great if they broke up in real life. Cause then you could, like, I D I should be a reality TV show director because I would totally manipulate them and be like, so I heard that you were thinking about quitting. Yeah. She told me that you were thinking about quitting and just create tension between the two of them in real life. So that they're acting is real.
Patrick: [01:02:14] Your vampire teeth are showing again.
Ian: [01:02:18] You want anarchy. You want complete chaos.
Patrick: [01:02:20] He is the villain.
Josh: [01:02:22] This podcast is doing nothing for public perception of me.
Patrick: [01:02:25] I promise. He's a really good guy. I promise you. Josh is amazing.
Ian: [01:02:31] to shift back to talking about plot a little bit cause we haven't really covered that ground entirely. How did you guys feel about the mystery and like the treasure hunt in this show?
Patrick: [01:02:43] I was okay with it. I think there were some parts of it that. I thought were genuine in terms of the plot and the story. I feel like there were some things that were just thrown in there to fill a hole. it definitely, I feel like had some vibes of earlier treasure hunting shows. I mean, living in Oregon, the Goonies always came up for me and it felt like kids going after treasure sort of stuff.
And my wife's a huge Goonies fan. So we've, we've watched that a ton. but it had that sort of vibe where it felt good that they were hunting for treasure and it, it felt like it never overtook the show. Like, I felt like there was some other stuff that was going on between, so it never felt like, Oh, they're just hunting treasure for X amount of episodes.
So I feel like some parts of it were really interesting and really fun and led into that nice little adventure. But at the same time, I was like, wait, okay. I don't think that that's exactly how they'd come across that map or that compass or, okay. That's not super believable.
Josh: [01:03:39] I think that you said exactly what my opinion is. Just, I think that it was an exciting adventure story where it's like, Oh, this is cool. They're treasure hunting. And it does give like high school age goonie vibes. but there were a lot of hand of God fallacies and just some convenience issues where like you brought up the map that.
Just the fact that the map was in the office and all she had to do was grab it and yeah. And the ledger was just conveniently there. It just, it, it always frustrated me that they were so quick to find the answer. And I mean, like, For people that know me. I love Harry Potter, but Harry Potter had the same fallacies where it was like Hermione luckily found the book that has all the answers in it. And that just always frustrated me. And I think that the same is true for this, but to a much faster degree where it's, whenever they found a problem, they solved the problem. Almost Scooby doo mystery and machine speeds.
Ian: [01:04:41] Yeah. I think that the plot with regards to the mystery and the treasure hunting, the thing that I liked about it is that, and this is a major spoiler. I liked that the treasure hunt plot wrapped up before the end of the show, I was kind of anticipating that, you know, the end of the last episode of the season was going to be where they found the gold.
Josh: [01:05:03] that was good writing.
Ian: [01:05:04] Yeah, I really liked the, they, they found it a lot earlier than that. And then the rest of the show is kind of dealing with the fallout from that, which I thought was really intelligent. And I really enjoyed that. It kind of kept me on my toes. but while we were in the treasure hunt, I had a lot of problems with the treasure hunt.
And you guys have kind of talked about them a little bit. Like I felt like it, I just could not believe it because it had been well established in the show that there had been generations of people who had like, spent their lives looking for this treasure. And somehow these high school kids solve it in a week and they do so by doing the most obvious things. Like they find a major clue at the library. And it's like, are you trying to tell me that no one thought to look at the library? And then they get like a major clue from just talking to a guy in a lighthouse and I'm like, wait a second. You, you mean to tell me that this guy's been sitting on this clue for years, decades, maybe, and he's never went and tried to look at it himself?
I mean, just like some really big jumps in logic that I felt were bigger than I could look past. even though I am totally up for a Goonies Scooby-Doo style, like just fun adventure. And that really, it did kind of feel like the Scooby Goonies, this show,
you know, like they they were riding around in a Volkswagen bus and, you know, a crew of kids looking for treasure. but I also can have some problems with that because that was at the point in the show where they were kind of toggling back and forth between this really, really goofy adventure and these much more serious adult themes.
Like there'd be a scene where they were, you know, dropping F bombs and drinking beers and like, Punching each other in the face and having these like big fights and then the next scene, they were like, Whoa, it's a snake. You know? Or like the treasures under the haunted house, very kind of jumping back and forth between really juvenile and like artificially adult, you know.
Also I had a pretty big problem with the fact that they. Broke into an old woman's house, stole her property and then attacked her and harmed her. And they seem to have literally no remorse for it whatsoever.
Josh: [01:07:28] absolutely. Yeah.
Patrick: [01:07:31] that was kinda like a, what,
Ian: [01:07:33] John B like knocks her over before they leave.
Josh: [01:07:37] But she has something he wants.
Ian: [01:07:40] It's like, she's a blind old lady and you literally pushed her off the stairs and then they don't even talk about it.
And they're just like, Oh yeah, this is our gold.
Patrick: [01:07:49] Yeah,
Josh: [01:07:50] I mean, maybe if she had been a dolphin what's her name would have defended her.
Ian: [01:07:58] Oh man,
Josh: [01:07:59] of one other. Okay. I feel so bad because usually when I'm throwing something out there it's like, and this like made me angry, but who brings $140,000 worth of gold bar to a pawn shop and just expects that much cash.
Patrick: [01:08:17] you're just gonna throw that chunk down and expect cash out of it. Come on.
Ian: [01:08:23] Yeah. Why, why all of it at once? Why didn't they try and split it up or I don't know.
Patrick: [01:08:28] smelt it together, sell it, baby. It's gone.
Ian: [01:08:32] Oh, man. Well we've ragged on this show a lot. do your ratings still stand? Do you all feel the same way? Josh you gave it a four out of 10. Patrick, you gave it a 7.9. I gave it an eight out of 10. Do you all feel the same way or has your rating changed since we've rehashed at all?
Patrick: [01:08:50] I do. I stand by it like. I thought it was good. I thought it was pretty average to what I was expecting. I thought it was average for a first season. like, you guys have both touched on many a times. Like the beginning of it was okay. It was, it was maybe average to below average at the beginning and it really picked up at the end and that's pretty promising.
But at the end of it, I was super pleasantly surprised. I really enjoyed it. So hopefully my, I guess 7.9 is a fairly high rating, but it should be known that it's I enjoyed the show. It was good.
Ian: [01:09:20] Hmm. What about you? Hater? Sorry doctor, Dr. Hater.
Josh: [01:09:25] Dr. Hater. I stand by my four, but what I will say is that if one more of those guys had taken off their shirt randomly, it would drop to a three. no, am a really, really big show snob, like TV shows are super hard for me to watch. I think that the only TV shows that I've ever watched all the way through are Avatar: The Last Airbender, Schitts Creek and yeah, I can't even think of any others off the top of my head.
So it's difficult for me to give a high rating to a TV show. I, I think that I still give this a four
Ian: [01:10:04] Hm. Gotcha. Wow. I feel slightly swayed. I gave it an eight and I think that if I had been thinking in the tenths, I was just thinking whole numbers. But if I'd been thinking in the tents, I think my rating would have been more similar to Patrick. Probably would have given it like a 7.8, something like that, that rounds up to an eight.
because. Well, as teachers we're used to evaluating things, you know, and like something in this 70 to 80% range is maybe a little bit above average, good, you know, decent. and that's kind of where I feel like this show is, we talked a lot about the. The holes that this show has in its plot and it's character development.
And we also talked a lot about some of the, like really good moments that the show has and some of the things that kept it interesting and kept it fun. And, and I think that yeah somewhere in the 7.5 to eight range is probably a good spot for this show for me. I'm good enough to watch for sure.
Good enough to watch.
Josh: [01:11:03] Tell you, what if Sarah and John B break up in real life?
Ian: [01:11:11] this show will be a 10.
Josh: [01:11:13] I'll give it a five solid five.
Patrick: [01:11:17] I can't wait to text you when that happens.
Josh: [01:11:19] You just assume that they're going to break up?
Patrick: [01:11:22] Quarantine can be pretty tough on young love. Gotta be careful, John B. When you're on a boat with nothing else around, because they haven't even landed anywhere yet, even though they were going to The Bahamas or whatever, you never know. It can be tough. They got a lot to work through, but I got faith that they will at least be together for a while.
Ian: [01:11:39] I was just looking through my notes one last time to see if I missed anything. And I wrote down, I came up with an analogy for this show that I'd completely forgotten about until this moment and reading it back I actually think that it's a great analogy for the show. Do you guys want to hear it?
Josh: [01:11:54] yes.
Ian: [01:11:55] And it's kind of thematic too.
I think that this show is like a boat that is absolutely full of holes, but it's really fun to watch it sink.
Patrick: [01:12:05] oof. That's pretty good.
Ian: [01:12:07] That's kind of how I felt about it. Like we had a ton of things that we were like, this is ridiculous about this show, but in the end, it's still fun to watch. And that boat was full of $400 million worth of gold and now it's sitting at the bottom of the ocean somewhere.
All right. Are there any other final thoughts that you want to share about this show?
Patrick: [01:12:26] I think we did it. I think we've covered the show pretty well.
Josh: [01:12:29] Yeah, that was an analysis.
Ian: [01:12:31] Yeah. Holy cow, this was our longest show yet.
I really enjoyed it though. It was kind of a fun departure from our norm.
Alright. Well, that's it for this episode of Yondercast. Thank you all so much for listening. Please subscribe to the show. And if you have 10 seconds to spare, give us a rating on Apple podcasts. That is the best way that you can support our growth as a podcast at this time. And if you have a question that you would like us to answer on the show, please fill out the survey that is linked in our show notes. And if you ever want to contact us, just send an email to yondercast@gmail.com. Goodbye, everybody.
Josh: [01:13:05] Bye.
Patrick: [01:13:06] Bye.